Never Underestimate the Power of Love: A Conversation with Mandy Carter
Mandy Carter is a North Carolina-based black lesbian social justice activist who helped to found the National Black Justice Coalition and Southerners On New Ground. She was nominated for the 2005 Nobel Peace Prize as part of "1000 Women for Peace." Sara Burke, Co-Editor of Peacework, interviewed her on 3/6/07.
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What stands out for you about the marriage equality movement, both historically and in this moment?
Marriage Equality first came up for me in the late nineties, when I was working in Washington, DC with the Human Rights Campaign and the National Black Lesbian and Gay Leadership Forum (NBJC). Evan Wolfson, who was at the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund, started talking about marriage equality before anyone else I knew, inspired by the historic 1996 court decision in Hawaii [in which a trial court ruled that denying same-sex couples the right to marry was unconstitutional sex discrimination under Hawaii's Equal Rights Amendment].
My interest was initially sparked because the plaintiffs in the Hawaii case included people of color -- that's why I got it, that's why I understood it. The connections between the denial of the rights of interracial couples to marry, and the denial of the rights of same-sex couples to marry, were very plain -- and these connections have continued to be vital in organizing around this issue.
One key event that led to the founding of the National Black Justice Coalition came after the Massachusetts court decision in 2003. Conservative groups that were mostly white found Black ministers to speak out against the decision, including one Chicago minister who said he'd willingly ride with the Klan against same-sex couples. In response to this outrageous comment, the National Black Justice Coalition held a press conference to announce its formation for our black LGBT and allies community and its support of marriage equality for same-sex couples. We received positive responses from important Black civil rights leaders like Julian Bond and Representative John Lewis.
By taking our place in the marriage equality movement, NBJC was able to bring forward the idea that homophobia among people of color, especially in the Black church, is something people of color need to address. The same arguments used now against same-sex marriage were used, very recently, against interracial marriage --"It's against God's will, it will destroy marriage as we know it, it will destroy family as we know it, and what about the children" -- and this is very evocative for African Americans.
What's intriguing about Massachusetts is that despite the ongoing legal challenges, the marriages are taking place. The fact that same-sex marriages are simply going on, is key. In the same way, there are still people who hate the idea of interracial marriage -- but it's a reality.
Also, no matter what happens in the future in Massachusetts, the historic decision there has changed reality in other places as well. Here in Durham, North Carolina, we don't have legalized marriage but thanks to a local organizing effort we do have second-parent adoption, which is profound. And in a sizeable number of counties we have domestic partner benefits for unmarried partners. These accomplishments started from the conversations that spun off from the Massachusetts decision.
Are there ways you think the marriage equality movement can become more effective or significant?
In the marriage equality movement, a lot depends on what door people came through to get there. If the door only says "Gay," then that's all people look for in the movement. I came through the door marked "Equality and Justice for All."
Here in North Carolina, many workers come from Latin American countries to work for the Mount Olive Pickle Company. The company has exploited and abused them, and the Farm Labor Organizing Committee asked all the social justice organizations, including Southerners on New Ground, to join in the campaign for better working conditions. We joined in enthusiastically, but in the course of organizing on this issue I spoke to a lesbian SONG supporter who asked me, "What do pickles have to do with my gay rights?" I was stunned.
The Beyond Marriage statement was the logical place for those of us who don't see these issues as gay only. It was drafted by many with backgrounds in the wider movement for peace and justice. I signed the Beyond Marriage statement even though I am a staunch marriage equality advocate because basic rights and needs shouldn't be tied to marriage at all!
I believe in not being put into "either/or" -- instead, I choose "and." Personally, I was born into two orphanages and a foster home, so I am interested in many different forms of family.
In the successful Arizona campaign to defeat an anti-marriage constitutional amendment, there was a tension between the desire not to alienate voters who might respond negatively to images of LGBT families, and the desire to use such images in order to change people's perceptions. Have you seen this tension emerge in other contexts?
It was somewhat right to emphasize the effects of the legislation would have on non-gays as well. In Kentucky the year before, the effort against the ballot measure was almost entirely gay-focused, even though the same initiative meant all women would lose protection against domestic violence perpetrated by their non-married male partners. Maybe a broader focus could have helped them win that campaign. Conversely, you shouldn't make invisible the very community that is at the heart of the struggle. I would love to have that conversation; it hasn't happened yet.
But along the way, valuable lessons are learned. The movement that was built in Kentucky, even though the fight against the amendment was lost, has since been the basis for some amazing organizing -- an example of what Evan Wolfson calls "losing forward."
NBJC has produced "Jumping the Broom," which engages African Americans directly about the case for accepting same-sex marriage. What are you learning about organizing on this issue in the specific context of the African-American community?
"Jumping the Broom" is one of the most exciting resources that has been brought to the African American community -- the first printing ran out. So many people we bring it to say, "Finally! Something we can relate to!" And many of the marriage equality campaigns around the country that are run by white folks have been able to use this resource to engage Black communities.
"Jumping the Broom" was created in partnership with the group Equality Maryland, and is a good example of the kind of impact that has been felt in the marriage equality movement since that first press conference in 2003. People of color have to make sure our faces and voices are represented in this movement. The NBJC is a member of a national coalition of groups active in marriage equality, so in that tangible way we are at the table.
Successful involvement of African Americans is key to the success of marriage equality, because without the Black legislative votes we would be in a very different place.
This struggle has brought moments of great sweetness and triumph, but has also provided immense opportunities for hatemongers to speak out publicly. How can LGBT people counteract the stress of having their worth and their survival debated at every level, from the TV news to the workplace?
What helps me is to remember that legal or not, on the books or not, every single day we are living out our lives. The one thing the radical right has underestimated is the power of love.
Somewhere, somehow, if something's got to be set right, it's just a matter of time. Marriage equality taps into the same power that was expressed in Loving vs. the State of Virginia in 1963: "I have a right to my relationship." That's powerful stuff!
